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Subject: "Blood Test Results" Archived thread - Read only
 
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MBS
Guest
Nov-30-06, 02:01 AM (CST)
 
"Blood Test Results"
 
   A semi-techical question about blood test results. Culture Tested positive but not typed with initial/primary outbreak about 10 days after probable exposure. Early blood test was (not surprisingly) negative with HSV-1 at 0.18 and HSV-2 at 0.26. Had a follow up blood test at exposure +4.5 weeks (I know this is early but was at Dr. for another reason and we decided to draw blood just to see.) The IgG results came back HSV-1 at 5.8 and HSV-2 at 1.0. The IgM (which I know are of limited value was 2.6.) My Dr. felt that this indicates HSV-1 and he felt the HSV-2 1.0 (equivical) was "noise from the higher HSV-1 positive." This seems to make sense but wanted to tap the wisdom of the forum. Any thoughts on the conclusion of type-1 versus 2? The validity of the "noise" creating the 1.0 for Type-2? Is it possible to get infected by both type 1 and 2 from the same encounter? Obviously, will follow up with a 12 week test but curious about opinions on this...


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Blood Test Results msmom Nov-30-06 1
     RE: Blood Test Results graceadmin Nov-30-06 2
         RE: Blood Test Results MBS Nov-30-06 3
             We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. Rajahadmin Nov-30-06 4
                 RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. MBS Nov-30-06 5
                     RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. msmom Nov-30-06 6
                         RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. MBS Dec-01-06 7
                             RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. graceadmin Dec-01-06 8
                                 RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. MBS Dec-01-06 9
                                 RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. Amy3 Dec-01-06 10
                                     RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.. graceadmin Dec-01-06 11

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msmom
Charter Member
3127 posts
Nov-30-06, 07:08 AM (CST)
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1. "RE: Blood Test Results"
In response to message #0
 
   Hey, MBS.


It is possible to get both hsv-1 and hsv-2 for the same encounter, but that doesn't seem to happen very frequently.

Do you know exactly what type of IgG test you got? Different tests have different levels of cross reactivity, so for some tests the "noise" theory makes sense, but for others it might not.

Take care,
M'sMom


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graceadmin
Charter Member
11235 posts
Nov-30-06, 07:31 AM (CST)
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2. "RE: Blood Test Results"
In response to message #1
 
It's far too early to tell if it's hsv1 genitally just from a blood test result. Your option is to wait a few more weeks and retest or if you get another lesion - get it cultured and typed asap. Your doctor is not doing his/her patients any good by not automatically ordering a typing with every herpes culture. The CDC's 2006 std guidelines plainly recommends using a pcr swab for lesion cultures and getting it typed - perhaps your doc needs to review those guidelines.

If your repeat blood test in another month is still borderline like that then you need to follow up with either a WB or quest's herpes inhibition assay to figure it all out.

grace

The first step in stopping the perceived stigma about genital herpes - is to stop believing in it yourself


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MBS
Guest
Nov-30-06, 11:31 AM (CST)
 
3. "RE: Blood Test Results"
In response to message #2
 
   I've spent some time reading this forum over the last week. Generally, I think the advice and opinions are terrific -- which is why I posted. But in this case, I'm a little dubious of the answer that you provided, Grace. (Sorry) You are very correct that the failure for my first Dr. to type the culture was bad. That is what made him my ex-Dr. on this and sent me back to my GP for the problem. Having said that, there is little that I can do to determine typing -- which in some ways seems very important -- other than to rely on the (knowlingly) early blood test. This is what my provider and I decided to do. Had the result for HSV-2 been .98 or lower, then I would not have posted. But it was 1.0 and that left me managing ambiguity -- which is where I need the support versus things I already know about my previous Dr.

I know from the culture it is definately HSV. I know from previous blood tests that I was not HSV for Type 1 or 2. Now I have a spike of Type 1 that is significant and an equivocal Type 2 with a HerpeSelect test. This result is not ambiguous for HSV . It seems only mildly ambiguous for Type (wherein the OB could be Type 2 if I co-infected (one answer helped with that -- but not really.)) So maybe if I ask (gently) again...is the upward movement of both Types as a result of a Type 1 seroconversion a reasonable thesis? If the answer is yes, then no Grace, it is really not too early. If the answer is no or maybe, then it might be too early -- but that maybe is dependant on co-infection frequency. Hope that makes sense/does not offend and that you can help.


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Rajahadmin
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13744 posts
Nov-30-06, 12:37 PM (CST)
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4. "We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #3
 
people are asking reasonable questions such as yours. I'll not try to answer the question since I'm not one of the medical experts, I just try to keep the site up and running smoothly.

"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Paraphrased from Mark Twain


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MBS
Guest
Nov-30-06, 02:34 PM (CST)
 
5. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #4
 
   ...and you are doing a good job at that, Rajah!
I'll wait to see if Grace, etc. have a follow on.
Keep up the good work.
MBS


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msmom
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3127 posts
Nov-30-06, 11:58 PM (CST)
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6. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #5
 
   Hey, MBS.

In my opinion, the most important missing piece of information here is: exactly what kind of test did you have, and more specifically, how prone is it to cross reactivity?

If you got one of the earlier ELISA tests, it's very possible that the equivocal results for hsv-2 are a testing anomaly, not an indication of infection. If the test you got was a new type-specific one, that's less likely.

As far as the question of co-infection, here are several pieces of possibly relevant data:

- It's not uncommon for people to have both hsv-1 and hsv-2. I don't remember the exact percentage of the population, but it's in double digits at least.

- Most people who have both contracted hsv-1 orally in their youth and hsv-2 genitally when they became sexually active.

- Cases where a person acquired both hsv-1 and hsv-2 simultaneously are almost unheard of - I think I remember one, and that was a sex worker, so there's no guarantee that she got both types from the same donor, just in the same time frame. Notice that I am talking about both TYPES, not both LOCATIONS. Lots of people get oral and genital herpes at the same time. The fact that cases of simultaneous infection are unreported doesn't mean it never happens, though. This would be a real pain in the ass to test for and I don't think any studies to look specifically at that have been chartered.

- There have been studies that look at shedding in people who have both hsv-1 and hsv-2, and the results suggest that people don't typically shed both types of virus at the same time.

Now, a little speculation:

Based on my limited info on shedding in people with both types of herpes, I would be very surprised to find that you contracted both types from the same encounter. If that's the only scenario that could lead to co-infection, I would call that a low probability option.

If your blood test was not a new type specific ELISA, then I would say that likelihood of the equivocal hsv-2 results being a testing odditiy are moderate.

However, if you really want to clear the air and know for sure, wait until 16 weeks post exposure and get a Western Blot. It's a very accurate test and looks at multiple antigens, so it is quite good at distinguishing types.

My free opinion...
M'sMom


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MBS
Guest
Dec-01-06, 02:19 AM (CST)
 
7. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #6
 
   Thank you so much for taking the time to post that response. It was very informative and useful. I'm going to find out what kind of test it was. I agree that a later test will be useful and that is what I will do. Till then, I'm not going to stress and also assume that it is probably Type 1 since all my previous tests were negative for *both* types and I only had a single encounter (with anyone!) So unless it was one of those "almost unheard ofs..." I think that seems a fair basis for initial conclusion.


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graceadmin
Charter Member
11235 posts
Dec-01-06, 07:44 AM (CST)
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8. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #7
 
Heck no I'm not offended at all! Takes more than questioning what I say to offend me!! It's ok to go with a working hypothesis that it's hsv1 genitally at this point but even you agree with me that retesting at a later date is a good idea just to be sure.

as m's mom already talked about - depending on what test you had done depends on if your first hsv1 result was even an accurate negative. Even the very best blood tests we have right now for herpes still miss 10% of all hsv1 infections ( other tests miss way more than that ) so at this point you can't bet the house on that your original hsv1 result was truly negative to assume that hsv1 is all you have going on Your hsv2 is borderline and without further testing there is no way to be sure if it's due to hsv1 or not this early on in the game. You also very well could've contracted both hsv1 orally and hsv2 genitally from the same encounter ( they can both occur genitally too but it's more common for it to be one oral and the other genital - it's less than 5% of genital infections that include both hsv1 and hsv2 genitally ) so that's one more reason to retest later on. At 4 1/2 weeks yes indeed 50% of folks have seroconverted - that's the same as flipping a coin that your results are accurate and that it's only hsv1 going on in your body which is why I recommended in my original post to retest at a later date to be sure.

I'd hate to see anyone think they have hsv1 genitally when it's actually hsv2 they have - for the sake of future partners. Sorry you are going thru this wait and see game because of your last doctor

grace

The first step in stopping the perceived stigma about genital herpes - is to stop believing in it yourself


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MBS
Guest
Dec-01-06, 11:36 AM (CST)
 
9. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #8
 
   Thanks. Appreciate the info and sentiment...yep, the first Dr. blew it by being unable to type -- that was a big no no. I did not include this in my original post but his co-doctor actually had called me on a Friday and told me the culture was negative and then he called me the next Tuesday and told me that they had read my results wrong and that it was actually positive. It has been important to bracket my feelings about that and stay focused on what is really important...and I have, but you certainly can imagine the frustration that created


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Amy3
Member since Dec-2-05
259 posts
Dec-01-06, 11:41 AM (CST)
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10. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #8
 
   Hey Grace.
When I had my first outbreak my doctor did a culture and she said that she was going to do a type specific test. However, when she sent it to the lab they didn't type it. When she called them to type it they no longer had the sample. So I'm wondering how much is it that the labs are dropping the ball. Or someone at the doctor's office screwed up on asking it to by typed. Or if she just screwed up and blamed the lab.

Blah! Doctor's bug me.


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graceadmin
Charter Member
11235 posts
Dec-01-06, 01:47 PM (CST)
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11. "RE: We're pretty hard to offend, MBS, especially, when.."
In response to message #10
 
Doctors should be ordering it typed when they send off the culture ( better yet they should be doing pcr since it's far more accurate - regular lesion cultures are falsely negative ~ 70% of the time ). Most labs will keep the sample for a few weeks but not always so it's best that if it's + for hsv you get a typing right then and there too instead of having to call back and ask for it to be typed. Unfortunately many healthcare professional's still believe that either only hsv2 can be genital or that type doesn't matter so they just order the culture and not the typing

grace

The first step in stopping the perceived stigma about genital herpes - is to stop believing in it yourself


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